Palmer Cap-Chur "Red's Special" Tranquilizer Dart Gun

Building or modifying BB, Airsoft, and Pellet type of guns. Show off your custom designs, find tips and other discussion. Target practice only!
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jackssmirkingrevenge
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Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:09 pm

I picked up one of these yesterday, still available for sale so I don't know if it qualifies as an antique but it certainly looks like one, being based on the Crosman 160 rifle design from the 60s but fitted with a 32 gauge barrel with a removable bolt allowing darts to be loaded.

In my enthusiasm to take it apart, I forgot to take a "before" picture, but here's a similar example fitted with a scope:

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Here it is broken down:

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Trigger detail, a much cruder affair than the original 160 trigger and the return spring pushes directly on the stock. Clearly veterinarians are not as picky as target shooters. Note the two grooves on the hammer that allow for a high/low power setting to be selected:

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Valve body and stem detail, in spite of the relatively massive 0.5" bore the transfer port is a mere 5/32" diameter, presumably unchanged from the original 160 valve. The barrel is also rifled, with 8 shallow right hand grooves, which is unusual given that tranquilizer darts are usually drag stabilized.

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Barrel markings identifying it as a "Red's Special", presumably an older variation of the one currently being sold as a "Long Range Rifle Type Projector". I believe the current version is made for a single CO2 cartridge, while the one I have takes two.

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I'm not sure if I should reseal it and keep it as is, or redo the internals to turn it into a big bore PCP. Decisions decisions...

edit: The manufacturer replied to my query about its date of manufacture and it seems that it was manufactured in the 70s, so I will most likely not be modifying it.
hectmarr wrote:You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:41 pm

Always cool to see the guts of the beast. 8)

Just looking at the pictures, it has a lot in common with the old Crosman 160 and modern QB78 rifles. Pretty much the standard platform upon which many current big bores are being based.

Seems like the transfer port and valve body are designed to limit the power output...understandable given the task at hand. While a valve could be made, it would be pretty much impossible to increase power without opening the transfer port...a permanent modification.

So....re-seal it and 3d print dart fletchings?? Picturing a small plastic guy standing in a barrel and sporting a pickelhaube... :lol:

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jackssmirkingrevenge
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:00 pm

Gippeto wrote:Just looking at the pictures, it has a lot in common with the old Crosman 160 and modern QB78 rifles. Pretty much the standard platform upon which many current big bores are being based.
No doubt the 160 was the base, indeed it was almost certainly manufactured by Crosman if this earlier example is any indication. Interesting to note that there is no safety notch for the hammer cocking bolt on this one, though there appears to be a safetly mechanism at the end of the tube.
Seems like the transfer port and valve body are designed to limit the power output...understandable given the task at hand.
It seems like a standard valve - considering that the syringes weigh much more than a 0.22" pellet, you would think that it would need a bit more gas flow to push it along to decent velocities. They claim an effective range of up to 30 yards so it can't be moving that slowly.
While a valve could be made, it would be pretty much impossible to increase power without opening the transfer port...a permanent modification.
Yep, the barrel port would have to be drilled out, not keen on doing that when I could just pick up a cheap QB78 for such a project.
So....re-seal it and 3d print dart fletchings?? Picturing a small plastic guy standing in a barrel and sporting a pickelhaube... :lol:
I could use it to come up with phone names :D

I have so 50 cal muzzleloader sabots that I had got for the Farco, we'll see what it can do. Maybe with a HPA fill nipple and the tube pumped to 1200 psi it could still have some decent "oomph", never much liked 12 gram cartridges anyway.
hectmarr wrote:You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life
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Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:07 pm

;)

You likely have it resealed by now?? :) Just need some range time, will be interesting I'm sure.

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Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:45 am

Not yet, it's been a tough week, but watch this space.
hectmarr wrote:You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:00 am

A little update, I machined a two part fill nipple with check valve held by the original cap that holds pressure well:

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This allowed for some testing at 1200 psi with my 3 stage Chinese pump which is still working well, very happy with it so far.

I tried with 3/8" steel ball bearings in 50 cal muzzleloader sabots as well as a dummy dart I machined to get an idea of how it would perform with the sort of projectiles it was intended for:

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The dart weights 8.84 grams, 3.54 grams for the steel ball and 0.68 grams for the sabot. Filling to 1200 psi for each shot I got an average of 357 fps for the steel ball and 254 fps for the dart, a fair 15 and 20 ft lbs respectively. It's worth noting that the valve body is effectively blocked off by the steel pin that acts as a spring guide for the valve stem spring as well as a piercer for one of the CO2 cartridges as it was intended to be used, which turns it into a "firing chamber" that might be limiting performance. More testing for accuracy and damage shots to follow eventually.
hectmarr wrote:You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:04 pm

Nice.

Wonder if they still make .50 paintballs.....
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:32 pm

They do, but I'm pretty sure they would be broken before they left the muzzle. Besides, what are you going to destroy with a paintball ;P
hectmarr wrote:You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:24 pm

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:I'm pretty sure they would be broken before they left the muzzle.
They would break before the valve fully opened, the current 50 cal paintball market is aimed towards children with a more fragile shell so it can be fired at lower pressures and speeds to hurt less.

I would definitely like to see a wax slug shot out if this though, I'd imagine it would hit with some force!
This weapon serves to silence the noisy speakers of the stupid of the other street! (joke) -Hectmarr
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Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:25 pm

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:They do, but I'm pretty sure they would be broken before they left the muzzle. Besides, what are you going to destroy with a paintball ;P
A little time in the freezer takes care of those issues.... :)
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Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:15 am

Eh, why not go one further... but at 25 grams I'd be amazed if it went more than 10 feet :D

Are muzzle-loader barrels controlled items?
hectmarr wrote:You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life
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Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:42 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote: Are muzzle-loader barrels controlled items?
I don't think so, I bought one off of eBay awhile back.
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Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:02 pm

Barrels by themselves are not controlled items Jack, don't need a PAL to buy one. Importing from the US, you run into a bunch of grief with homeland security and export/end user permits that add up pretty damn fast.

Have been buying pb barrels from a fellow, he is selling off stock for the widow of an old gunsmith...has quite a few left in various bore sizes. Same fellow that had the old .30 co2 rifle.
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Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:36 am

Finally had time to do some testing:

[youtube][/youtube]

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hectmarr wrote:You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life
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Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:39 pm

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:Finally had time to do some testing:

[youtube][/youtube]

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Just what I need to dominate my mother-in-law :D
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