Quick advanced question about a psi question

[dapallox1]

A gallon is 4.5 litres, so it would last 4.5 times as long.

However, I do have to express my doubts that an engine could be run on only 5 litres of HHO gas a minute.

Thinking it through 5 litres of Hydrogen gas at 10 psig will only release 30 kJ of energy when burnt.
A 220 hp engine has a power output of 3.6 times that a second.
Input requirements are going to be at least twice that.

Judging by that, your consumption is going to be at least about 450 times your prediction. This means that to run a 220 hp engine, the tanks will last about 14 seconds (assuming lentamentalisk's estimates were correct)

Sorry to tell you this, but your idea really isn't a viable option. I've worked on lots of weird engine designs, and other than the ones which use liquid fuels with low fuel/air ratios, the consumption is a killer.

This is where I found out that it would take 5 liters per min: http://hydropowercar.com/forum_viewtopic.php?8.493

That will explain everything. And before anyone says "running a car on hydrogen is impossible", go to google and see for your self. Never be closed minded.

[DYI]

To run a 200 HP auto engine at full speed on nothing but HHO you would need 20 X 5.46 or 109.2 liters per minute!

Looks like you might need to read a bit more carefully before you say you can run a 220HP engine on 5L/minute hydrogen. Ragnarok's numbers look a lot more valid, and I can see a bunch of mistakes in the post on Hydropower as well.

It is possible to run a car on hydrogen, but on board electrolysis is rather wasteful of energy, as it consumes about 2x as much energy as burning the gases it creates. If you want to run a vehicle, you'll need liquid fuels, such as gasoline, propane, or even liquid hydrogen if you want to create a real headache in building a containment vessel.

[psycix]

@DYI

True,
Makny people think that running a car on water (or hydrogen) means free energy.
It isnt, its just a form of storing and later useing energy.

Water --Electrolysis-> Hydrogen+oxygen --Burning--> water
Electrolysis adds energy
Buring it frees it again.

Due to efficiency losses and some law of thermodynamics you will NEVER gain more energy, always lose.

[Ragnarok]

I have to admit a small mess-up. My consumptions were based on pure hydrogen. Consumption of HHO gas is therefore 50% higher than on pure hydrogen.

but on board electrolysis is rather wasteful of energy, as it consumes about 2x as much energy as burning the gases it creates.

I'd agree. I have to ask the OP where the energy for the electrolysis is supposed to come from - A battery bank?
Then much higher efficiency would be had from running an electric motor directly from this, and perhaps rigging up regenerative braking.

Then it might be reasonable to hope to hit efficiencies of around 80%, rather than the 20% or less that is likely by the convoluted route of hydrolysis cells.

If you're really set on a combustion engine, use a fuel that's stored as a liquid.

[Lentamentalisk]

http://www.instructables.com/id/Run-You ... da-Cans-a/
this is an instructables written by a friend of a friend of mine, who ran his car off of aluminum cans and lye, but he used insanely huge volumes of H₂ gas, and the Al+H₂->AlO₂+H₂+heat is way faster, and doesnt require a battery or anything. In fact, it is an exothermic reaction so it speeds up as it goes, and the excess heat can be used to do what ever the hell you want with.

Edit: in my previous message I said it would last 22 min, given the 5L per minute. Though that 5L/min figure has been disputed, assuming it is correct, the tank should actually last ~100 minutes, because I forgot to convert gallons to liters. In the future try to give all of your data in the same measuring system, preferably metric, so as not to confuse everyone.

[dapallox1]

Well, thanks for the positive feedback guys. I really do appreciate it. How could I store Hydrogen as a liquid?

@Ragnarok

Yeah, HHO Cells are ran off of the battery and triggered off of the ignition switch, or separate switch. It is only ran off of one battery when using it WITH gasoline. But if it was ran off of JUST hydrogen, I would use a few extra batteries to generate HHO faster.

[Lentamentalisk]

How could I store Hydrogen as a liquid?

either compress it to insane pressures, or get it hell of fu<king cold.
I cant find a single phase diagram anywhere on the net, but basically it is not possible to do with out half a million dollars

[dapallox1]

lol, liquid hydrogen freezes at "Freezing Point @ 1 atm: -434.5°F (-259.2°C, 14oK)"

http://www-safety.deas.harvard.edu/serv ... rogen.html

Well, you all have answered a lot of my questions. Thanks a lot.

[psycix]

lol, liquid hydrogen freezes at "Freezing Point @ 1 atm: -434.5°F (-259.2°C, 14oK)"

http://www-safety.deas.harvard.edu/serv ... rogen.html

Well, you all have answered a lot of my questions. Thanks a lot.

Soooo, lets power up that old freezer and crank up that voltage a bit

Or imagine a modified beertender made to tap out pure liquid hydrogen