Cleaner vs Primer

[pat123]

In this thread we had a discussion about cleaner being as good as primer.

I have primed and glued, cleaned and glued, and just glued three different pipes. My compressor can only go to 300psi and I am using 1/2 inch pipe and fittings so it is possible that none of them will come apart.

The primer and cleaner are curing now so I should have some pics up tomorrow.

i want to see what most people think will happen.
I personally think that cleaner and primer will hold, but at a higher pressure cleaner will fail first.

[daberno123]

I'm going to have to say the pipes with primer and cleaner will stay together. I'm almost positive the cement will not hold.

Recently I was able to twist off a 1" fitting that had only been cemented with a 24" pipe wrench.

This is something that has been needed to be done. I agree with you that the cleaner will fail before the primer.

How will you be protecting yourself in case of explosion, flying shrapnel, etc?

[MaxuS the 2nd]

I never used primer, but then again..The solvent I use is probably different from the chemicals that you guys use.

[jrrdw]

IMO, 1st the cemented will fail, the the clean and cemented will fail, then the primered and cemented would be the last to go. That's what I think.

I was conversing with a friend about the water system in his shop and he told me the cement he used was all in one. I took that to mean primer and cement mixed together, he didn't have it on hand to show me. Anybody else heard of such a thing?

I also looked in local hardware stores to no advale.

[psycix]

Interesting experiment.
You should also try cleaner->primer->cement as "the ultimate one"

Will you be using water pressure?

[jimmy101]

I doubt any of the joints will fail at 300 PSI. 1/2" Sch 40 PVC is rated to 600 PSI.

I would expect that even a "glue only" joint should be OK at 600 PSI as long as glue was applied to both surfaces of the joint and it was fully cured.

Assuming the safety factor is 2~2.5, a properly done joint shouldn't fail until 1200~1500 PSI, and even then the pipe might fail before the joint.

Filling with water, as psycix suggested, is definitely a good idea. Even if you then pressurize with air.

[jrrdw]

Someone posted a water test before, 2" X 10' sch40 pressure rated filled to 1029PSI if I was seeing the video clearly.

[SpudFarm]

http://www.youtube.com/user/stenseltizm

don't know if this is interesting but it is cool and on the 10" i can hear him say " 1200"

[pat123]

well, I got them all to 270 psi without any failures. I think I found one of the problems. I looked in my cement and it has a slight purple tint from a little primer being in there. do you think that the little bit of primer would affect anything?

[SpudFarm]

no, primer goes on first to soften and make a better surface to bond.
i don't think it has anything with the primer to do

[jimmy101]

well, I got them all to 270 psi without any failures. I think I found one of the problems. I looked in my cement and it has a slight purple tint from a little primer being in there. do you think that the little bit of primer would affect anything?

I doubt a little bit of primer will have any affect. The primer was probably picked up by the glue brush the last time you glued up a primed joint. The dye in primer has a very intense color so it would only take a small amount to give the glue a purple tint.

I'm not surprised none of the joints failed at 270 PSIG since you are at less than half the pressure rating of NSF-PW rated 1/2" Sch 40 PVC.

Perhaps you could heat the test chambers up and use the temperature derating to simulate higher pressures? Put the water filled chambers in a closed up car in the sun for an hour or so, along with a thermometer. A closed car in the sun might get up to 140F. The derating for PVC at 140F is 0.22 so the pressure rating would drop from 600 PSIG to 132 PSIG, if the water and the chamber gets that hot.

[Coodude26]

From my experience I have noticed cleaner gets off the gunk (hand grease, etc) off the pipe. it does NOT act as primer and should not be used as such.
Primer "digests" the outside of the pipe and lets the cement puncture and get a better grip.

I am about to release a video tutorial on how to properly solvent weld PVC, I just wish Windows movie maker would stop f'ing up.

[iisthemuffin]

From my experience I have noticed cleaner gets off the gunk (hand grease, etc) off the pipe. it does NOT act as primer and should not be used as such.
Primer "digests" the outside of the pipe and lets the cement puncture and get a better grip.

I am about to release a video tutorial on how to properly solvent weld PVC, I just wish Windows movie maker would stop f'ing up.

I tihnk there are quite a few already.

And if you havent read around, there is a widespread debate about primer and cleaner. The purpose of this thread is to test to see which fails first if any fail at all.

[Coodude26]

Yea, I was jus saying what I thought it was from my experience.

And I believe mine would be the first tutorial to use cleaner.

[iisthemuffin]

Cleaner is not completely needed though, so, no offense to you, it offers nothing that the others havent.

And i do not mean to be rude either. Im simply jsut saying, if your encountering problems making the video, dont break your back trying to get it to work as there are plenty of other videos explaining the same thing.